The Geneva Convention

Search
In honor of my hero, Donald "I did not fight" Dumsfeld.

Btw - before you righties get your panties in knots, "The Guardian" is an UK publication.

http://www.aljazeerah.info/Opinion%20editorials/2003%20Opinion%20Editorials/March%202003%20op%20eds/27%20op%20eds/Bush%20and%20Rumsfeld%20had%20better%20watch%20their%20backs,%20by%20George%20Monbiot%20%20aljazeerah.info.htm

Bush and Rumsfeld Had Better Watch Their Back
George Monbiot, The Guardian



LONDON, 27 March 2003 — Suddenly, the government of the United States has discovered the virtues of international law. It may be waging an illegal war against a sovereign state; it may be seeking to destroy every treaty which impedes its attempts to run the world, but when five of its captured soldiers were paraded in front of the Iraqi television cameras on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld, the US defense secretary, immediately complained that “it is against the Geneva Convention to show photographs of prisoners of war in a manner that is humiliating for them”.

He is, of course, quite right. Article 13 of the third convention, concerning the treatment of prisoners, insists that they “must at all times be protected ... against insults and public curiosity”. This may number among the less heinous of the possible infringements of the laws of war, but the conventions, ratified by Iraq in 1956, are non-negotiable. If you break them, you should expect to be prosecuted for war crimes.

This being so, Rumsfeld had better watch his back. For this enthusiastic convert to the cause of legal warfare is, as head of the Defense Department, responsible for a series of crimes sufficient, were he ever to be tried, to put him away for the rest of his natural life.

His prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba, where 641 men (nine of whom are British citizens) are held, breaches no fewer than 15 articles of the third convention. The US government broke the first of these (Article 13) as soon as the prisoners arrived, by displaying them, just as the Iraqis have done, on television. In this case, however, they were not encouraged to address the cameras. They were kneeling on the ground, hands tied behind their backs, wearing blacked-out goggles and earphones. In breach of Article 18, they had been stripped of their own clothes and deprived of their possessions. They were then interned in a penitentiary (against Article 22), where they were denied proper mess facilities (26), canteens (28), religious premises (34), opportunities for physical exercise (38), access to the text of the convention (41), freedom to write to their families (70 and 71) and parcels of food and books (72).

They were not “released and repatriated without delay after the cessation of active hostilities” (118), because, the US authorities say, their interrogation might, one day, reveal interesting information about Al-Qaeda. Article 17 rules that captives are obliged to give only their name, rank, number and date of birth. No “coercion may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever”. In the hope of breaking them, however, the authorities have confined them to solitary cells and subjected them to what is now known as “torture lite”: Sleep deprivation and constant exposure to bright light. Unsurprisingly, several of the prisoners have sought to kill themselves, by smashing their heads against the walls or trying to slash their wrists with plastic cutlery.

The US government claims that these men are not subject to the Geneva conventions, as they are not “prisoners of war”, but “unlawful combatants”. The same claim could be made, with rather more justice, by the Iraqis holding the US soldiers who illegally invaded their country. But this redefinition is itself a breach of Article 4 of the third convention, under which people detained as suspected members of a militia (the Taleban) or a volunteer corps (Al-Qaeda) must be regarded as prisoners of war.

Even if there is doubt about how such people should be classified, Article 5 insists that they “shall enjoy the protection of the present convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal”.

But when, earlier this month, lawyers representing 16 of them demanded a court hearing, the US court of appeals ruled that as Guantanamo Bay is not sovereign US territory, the men have no constitutional rights. Many of these prisoners appear to have been working in Afghanistan as teachers, engineers or aid workers. If the US government either tried or released them, its embarrassing lack of evidence would be brought to light.

You would hesitate to describe these prisoners as lucky, unless you knew what had happened to some of the other men captured by the Americans and their allies in Afghanistan. On Nov. 21, 2001, around 8,000 Taleban soldiers and Pashtun civilians surrendered at Konduz to the Northern Alliance commander, Gen. Abdul Rashid Dostum. Many of them have never been seen again.

As Jamie Doran’s film Afghan Massacre: Convoy of Death records, some hundreds, possibly thousands, of them were loaded into container lorries at Qala-i-Zeini, near the town of Mazar-i-Sharif, on Nov. 26 and 27. The doors were sealed and the lorries were left to stand in the sun for several days. At length, they departed for Sheberghan prison, 80 miles away. The prisoners, many of whom were dying of thirst and asphyxiation, started banging on the sides of the trucks. Dostum’s men stopped the convoy and machine-gunned the containers. When they arrived at Sheberghan, most of the captives were dead.

The US special forces running the prison watched the bodies being unloaded. They instructed Dostum’s men to “get rid of them before satellite pictures can be taken”. Doran interviewed a Northern Alliance soldier guarding the prison. “I was a witness when an American soldier broke one prisoner’s neck. The Americans did whatever they wanted. We had no power to stop them.” Another soldier alleged: “They took the prisoners outside and beat them up, and then returned them to the prison. But sometimes they were never returned, and they disappeared.”

Many of the survivors were loaded back in the containers with the corpses, then driven to a place in the desert called Dasht-i-Leili. In the presence of up to 40 US special forces, the living and the dead were dumped into ditches.

Anyone who moved was shot. The German newspaper Die Zeit investigated the claims and concluded that: “No one doubted that the Americans had taken part. Even at higher levels there are no doubts on this issue.” The US group Physicians for Human Rights visited the places identified by Doran’s witnesses and found they “all ... contained human remains consistent with their designation as possible grave sites”.

It should not be necessary to point out that hospitality of this kind also contravenes the third Geneva Convention, which prohibits “violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture”, as well as extra-judicial execution. Donald Rumsfeld’s department, assisted by a pliant media, has done all it can to suppress Jamie Doran’s film, while Gen. Dostum has begun to assassinate his witnesses.

It is not hard, therefore, to see why the US government fought first to prevent the establishment of the international criminal court, and then to ensure that its own citizens are not subject to its jurisdiction. The five soldiers dragged in front of the cameras on Monday should thank their lucky stars that they are prisoners not of the American forces fighting for civilization, but of the “barbaric and inhuman” Iraqis.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,509
Tokens
Article 5 insists that they “shall enjoy the protection of the present convention until such time as their status has been determined by a competent tribunal”.


Very good post. I didn't think we could honestly say that Al Queda prisoners dont get protection under the geneva convention. If that was allowed, any country could find some exception that would allow them to treat P.O.W.'s anyway they please.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
14,280
Tokens
This Administration is filled with hypocrises that come back to bite them in the ass. It is becoming more embarrassing by the day. Even I didn't think it would be so when he was elected/appointed, but Dubya is going to fo down as the worst president of the century. I just hope he doesn't take the rest of us down with him.

We could have simply elected to treat the Al Qaeda prisoners according to Geneva to show some class and good sense, but NOOOOO we're too tough for that. People warned at the time that policy would endanger Americans at a later time when captured, but did Bush listen? NOOOO.
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
345
Tokens
I 100% believe in freedom of speech and it is everyone's God given right by the USA. Please do not get me wrong; I whole-heartedly respect your point of view as I hope that all of you respect mine.

Some of your posts do not sound at all American. My God, in a situation like this you should simply just back your country. Now, if you do not agree then fine, at least support your country because right now there are US men and women fighting and dying for the cause.

One thing is for sure, even if the US had continued to try diplomatic means to throw out Saddam, it never would have worked. The reason why is that you have nations like Syria and Egypt in the Security Council. Since they are Muslim, they would have always supported their wonderful friend the benevolent dictator Mr. Hussein. (Which is perfectly understandable because they are all in the same religion and ethnic race).

Look at President Clinton, for 8 years he tried diplomatically Saddam and was unsuccessful. Frankly, Saddam would have never have given up Iraq, only by war. Is this war illegal? I say no because diplomacy would have failed. Failed, because the UN would have never had the balls to confront Saddam, also because France, Germany, Russia, and China have lucrative interest with Saddam.

Now, like I have said in my previous posts, it is probably better to shoot first and ask later or we will have another 9/11 in our hands. Remember Pres. Clinton with Osama Bin Laden. First, was the car bomb at the World Trade Center, next were the US embassy bombings in the Middle East and Africa, and then was the bombing of the US Cole. How many more terrorists’ attacks and murder would have been waged against our nation before Mr. Clinton would have retaliated appropriately? If President Clinton had acted early then we wouldn’t have a 9/11 in our hands. Then again, if Mr. Clinton would have acted early, the UN would call it illegal and people like you would be badmouthing your own country!!
 

New member
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
543
Tokens
Just scared little children.....
icon_rolleyes.gif
 
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> dying for the cause<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What cause exactly Alex ?

--------------------------------

25 to life because you couldn't controll your anger
 
Joined
Sep 21, 2004
Messages
2,299
Tokens
>Since they are Muslim, they would have always supported their wonderful friend the benevolent dictator Mr. Hussein.

Alex, Saddam was known to hate muslims, especially the radical Islamists like bin Laden.
 
Alex,I think it is a scary concept to blindly support one's country.I don't think I need to cite examples.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
1,117,450
Messages
13,543,873
Members
100,458
Latest member
Telemarketingpro12
The RX is the sports betting industry's leading information portal for bonuses, picks, and sportsbook reviews. Find the best deals offered by a sportsbook in your state and browse our free picks section.FacebookTwitterInstagramContact Usforum@therx.com